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The Return of Walmart...sponsored by NoDoz

I love sequels



1/17: Walmart Issue...

Mort asks a great question:

Where were they?



THEN: “As a Christian, I believe myself to have more patience with difficult people,” he said. “I understand where they are coming from. I can be empathetic to their views. I am a servant to them.” Clint Johnson – 9/1/2014 – DBNJ


NOW: The crowd expressed their disagreement loudly.

“I don’t consider this a popularity contest,” he (Clint Johnson) said, brushing off the crowd’s disapproval. “Don’t vote for me again.”

The crowd’s boos turned quickly to cheers.

– 1/15/2015 – DBNJ


Johnson: One Term Only?

Mayoral Meltdown at 5:23:00/5:26:00 of the meeting…and just keep on listening…

Did citizens have reason to believe Mayor Johnson was voting against this?

Is this “Debary-centric” growth?

Chris Carson states he knows the law and property rights. He doesn’t. Bases his denial on “insight”. Doubts this issue is "up for interpretation"...so only his vote is correct?

Vice Mayor Handy-Peters, generally speaking, is unable to collect her thoughts and talk. She negotiated terms in the agreement and then voted "No".

VM Handy-Peters - Future Land Use Map is an issue for Walmart but not Splash Pad which had a Future Land Use of Commercial - rezoned to Public Institutional - practically the opposite zoning...no problem.

Chris Carson denies project due to public safety.

VM Handy-Peters denies project because she does not want access to Pine Meadow from Walmart.

Fire Marshall urges access to Pine Meadow from Walmart for public safety reasons.

Again, Chris Carson denies project, in part, due to public safety.

Lastly, I remember with the Dollar General issue, we were all told they had a right to build it. The Council could not say no...the zoning...the usage...Property Rights...We had to have two dollar stores across from each other...which would be like having 3 gas stations so Carson voted no on that but yes on the Dollar...well...ok...bad example...











"On any given day in the summertime...there are 600 people at the Splash Pad." Chris Carson

From Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised 10th Edition - Pg. 154:

Friendly Amendments:

Regardless of whether or not the maker of the motion "accepts" the amendment, it must be opened to debate and voted on formally unless adopted by unanimous consent.

pg. 52 - Unanimous consent: The chair states, "If there is no objection.." or "Is there any objection to...?" The chair pauses to listen for an objection.



The SLUT and the Sunrail



Mingle Mangle

"I am incapable of making any agreements for wvac. We have a board of directors that guides us ." --Rick McBride -August 23, 2014

Rick McBride:

I watched the meeting from last year wherein Rick McBride was negotiating with the Council about the contract with WVAC. Knowing what I know now..well… imagine my new found shock and horror tuning in to that meeting where a man who now admits he had no basis to negotiate was negotiating. The shock of later learning he did not fulfill his agreement to add DeBary to signage and had to be pressed repeatedly before the truth came out. I expect Rick McBride to publicly apologize to Rick Dwyer, who really was the force behind keeping “DeBary” in the signage and Rick McBride agreed to do.

Also, I expect a letter of apology from Rick McBride to former Councilmembers from last year who were on the dais. What Rick McBride did, in negotiating when he had no authority to do so…is…well…it’s reprehensible.

This Mr. McBride, so obvious in his avoidance of answering simple questions to avoid the truth of his failure to follow through and to negotiate when he has no authority to do so. What is being taught in sports?

I wouldn’t be surprised if Mr. McBride became upset because individuals are taking him to task for his less than honest dealings with the City.

But there are those individuals who insist that people act a certain way while the person making those demands behaves anyway they want.

WVAC needs to be addressed and other avenues explored. If not for this year then for next year. WVAC is already taking money and the contract hasn’t even been discussed. Mr. McBride’s fictitious “Doing Business As” doesn’t cut it.

Rick McBride has his fingers in many pots according to SunBiz records – Florida’s website for corporations and LLC’s etc,. The staff at POP is looking into all questions and trying to nail it down.

In other news, the City Manager received his raise. VM Handy-Peters amended the motion to include 40 extra personal leave hours – that separate amendment was NOT voted on. The City Attorney was right and process was not followed. Watch the footage. There was only a single vote on this issue - VM Handy-Peters only amended the hours...not the salary...given this amendment there should have been two votes on this issue - there was only one. Even if VM Handy-Peters did amend the salary amount and the hours, there should have been two votes on this issue: one for the amendment and one for the newly amended motion. The fact that there was only one vote even though there was an amendment to the motion proves that process and Robert's Rules were not followed. VM Handy-Peters made the amendment to the motion at 1:04 of the meeting or thereabouts. But there was only one vote.

Also, Mayor Johnson stated every employee has received a 3% raise annually. Is that true?

VM Handy-Peters and the Council talked salaries on November 5th. For thirty minutes. Never mentioned the City Manager until the last two minutes of the workshop.

Although VM Handy-Peters added this issue to the agenda, she never made a motion on it. She didn’t really talk about it that much and I don’t recall CM Brady saying much of anything about it – doesn’t mean he didn’t, I just don’t recall his commentary if there was any.

Since the four Councilmembers could not respond to the breach in process and the City Manager’s contract they did a usual tactic: talk about how the City Manager is deserving of this raise. That was never in question. That was never the debate.

VM Handy-Peters raised her voice to CM Dwyer to what I would call yelling – this was after the Mayor had warned speakers about decorum and how to conduct ourselves at the meeting. Only in ancient Sparta were important matters decided by who could shout the loudest – I guess at times, for certain people, yelling is admirable. I don’t think I’ve ever heard Mort Culligan raise his voice to the level VM Handy-Peters did. I was taken aback.

Mayor Johnson made the motion to raise the City Manager’s salary – I’ve since heard via phone calls and emails that Mayor Johnson had expressed his disappointment with the City Manager while campaigning.

I have no proof of Mayor Johnon’s stance on the issue prior to his voting- although the individuals are insistent. I don’t recall Mayor Johnson saying anything to me about CM Parrott that was a negative so I am going with that information I have. Some people may go to the podium to raise this issue - I would suggest you just talk to Mayor Johnson personally. The issue is over with and regardless of the past, Mayor Johnson took a stand. I can tell you that I've gone right up to Mayor Johnson and asked him outright about a specific issue and he simply answered the question and appreciated that I spoke to him about it directly - asked and answered. Over and done with.

I am on the record in December of 2014 saying I was in favor of the raise and gave an amount – but it should have happened in August. It should have been discussed in a workshop as, it seems, everything else is – except for the raise Councilmembers wanted to give themselves with the exception of VM Handy-Peters and CM Dwyer.

Chris Carson felt very comfortable voting himself a 300 dollar raise which violates the City Charter - see below my commentary that I read to the Council.

Other news: Walmart issue is this Wednesday at 6PM. Whether a Councilmember votes “for” or “against” this issue – I hope each member provides a thorough, very thorough basis of approval or denial using the codes to protect the CITY. If the City is sued by any applicant on any issue, it is the Council’s basis of approval or denial that protects the City or leaves the City exposed to legal harm.

Dunkin’ Donuts is coming to the Winn-Dixie parking lot. Talk about traffic – how is that going to work? Since Dunkin’ Donuts is under 10K square feet – no vote – no discussion – just like Family Dollar store. Wonder where those cars are going to go?

Chris Carson stated that on any given day in the summer the Splash Pad hosts 600 people. The Pad, that cost half a million dollars and never went through the budgeting process, is closed until May. It’s open 5 months out of the year. I don’t know how Carson quantifies his number – do people sign in? Is it just anecdotal? I know he will quantify it with some humbug answer, that's not my concern.

This is my concern with Chris Carson's number: I’ve heard that on any given day during the summer there are, more likely, 1500 people a day. Then I heard it was over 2000 people.

My own observations, and it’s only anecdotal, puts the number at more like 3200 people a day. I’m sure someone (CM Carson)will cite this last number to show just how popular the Splash Pad is…which probably explains where the number 600 comes from. As an aside, over 5000 people a day visit DeBaryPOP…7000 on the weekend - this isn’t true…but if I say it enough…and you pass it along enough…after enough enough time…the lie becomes a truth…

Below are my comments from the podium to the Council during Public Participation and the City Manager’s salary issue:

Firstly, Mayor Johnson – let’s not start a working relationship with past broken agreements. Contradictions. False representations. But unfortunately that has already happened. It started last year with Rick McBride and the West Volusia Athletic Club. Mr. McBride stood here and made an agreement to add “DeBary” to signage and he did not do it. When pressed on the issue he admitted that he had no authority to negotiate on behalf of WVAC. So why was he doing exactly that? What is West Volusia contributing to this organization? Who is being paid? Who is receiving a salary? We were told by the President of the Gateway Center for the Arts that she, Sandra Wilson, does not take a salary – only to find out that she does take a salary. Is this the case with WVAC? How often, for how long and for how much – who knows? We should know. The Council needs to consider and perhaps reconsider this relationship it has with the WVAC. They need to submit financials and follow through on agreements made. Make sure the right people who are in authority to negotiate are the only ones talking to the Council next month.

Secondly, I want to respond to the discussion from the Dec. 3 rd meeting on adding a stipend onto Councilmember’s monthly pay. It was added at the last meeting and almost the last item.

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?

From Merriam Webster’s 11th edition:

Stipend: a fixed sum of money paid periodically for services or to defray expenses.

Raise: an increase in wages or salary.

To forever raise a councilmember’s salary is a raise – not a stipend. A stipend is paid periodically. To call a “raise” a “stipend” is an end run around the Charter and the process in which the salaries of Councilmember’s are increased or not.

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg… doesn’t make it a leg.

Calling a “raise” a “stipend” doesn’t make it a “stipend” and it’s disingenuous it is to try and convince people that it is.

( I did not read this – I told the City Clerk who alerted Chris Carson to make the motion to change the minutes.): The minutes from that meeting need to be amended in my opinion. The minutes read that no action was taken on that stipend issue. Action was taken: a motion was made and seconded. It failed. So while no action was to be taken on the motion made, a motion is an action. This is at 3:18:20 and the City Attorney said “No action”, but I believe that the vote of 2-2 should be in the minutes. VM Hunt made the motion with LHP seconding. Members Dwyer and LHP voted “No” while VM Hunt and Mayor Carson voted “Yes”. I think the record should reflect that action taken.

I wandered away from what I wrote, though my commentary, in essence, is represented below:

City Manager’s Salary:

  • No submitting materials or documents beforehand to consider – done on the fly?
  • Not following process: not following the City Manager’s contract or budgeting process – this should have been done in August while doing the budgeting workshops.
  • The stipend issue and this issue: not discussed in workshops. Why? I don’t know why we have budget workshops when the budget is as flexible as a stretch Armstrong in a Navaho sweat lodge. These two issues are being pushed through.
  • We are asking two new members to vote on this as their first action.

In short, the process that dictates a certain procedure has been discarded. I’m not even talking about the actual salary amount here, I’m talking about process. I’m talking about procedure. This issue was mentioned literally in the last two minutes of a workshop and now here it is for a vote. This isn’t the way to govern.

Norm Erickson