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The Mayor's Mingle Mangle

Please Pull This Car Over!!

Part 3 of 3

Act I of V




A Two "Front-Page" War for DeBary:

Just like the land deal...the evidence mounts against Clint Johnson for removal - Clint Johnson calls his own emails an "absurd claim". It would be like denying you wrote something in your own handwriting..oh...wait a second..Clint did...on that City application.

How will Clint deny his own emails? His own text message? Believe me. He will. That email and text message and whatever else is out there...well...they were all sent because of that shady land deal...yeah...we all made Clint send those directions to staff and the City Manager because of the shady land deal.

I mean. How can anyone not see this connection? Clint sent the email in January due to the shady land deal...it's so gosh darn obvious.

I'm smiling while I type this. Clint won't be smiling when he says it. And he will say it.

He will say these communications of his to staff are simply an extension and reaction by staff to his position on the shady land deal.

In fact, Clint might say he didn't send the text or email. Who else has access? Eric sent it to himself. It was the man on the grassy knoll. Clint stepped out and left his phone and...and anyone could have sent that to the City Manager...go find that person...

And he will mean it, people.


What if all Councilmembers emailed and texted City Staff and the City Manager as the Mayor has - would it be ok? Could our City run that way?

No. It couldn't. That's why the Charter calls for it to be a prohibited action.

Charter Violations and Clint Johnson...


UPDATE: I don't do card tricks with people I play poker with.

Please note on the agenda for next week it reads thusly:

"The City Staff is also in possession of other relevant evidence."

"Other relevant evidence". Ok. So there is more out there. We'll have to wait and see. Conspiracy nuts abound.

Howard Gates has mentioned that this "story" on was POP before the agenda. Well, that's because I read Clint's twitter about giving "explicit instruction" to Eric, Howard. And since I know that's a violation I put it on POP. I didn't know about the text to Mr. Parrott giving him instruction in a tone that is...troubling.

The land swap deal and DeBary Bayou - funny on how it hinges on getting public records like emails to support the story. Imagine if citizens were able to receive public documents from Clint Johnson the way we all can from Eric Frankton when he's in possession of them? Wow. It's great to see Clint use public documents that he can gain possession of to make a point - meanwhile, Clint won't give up his own public documents. Or he's lost them. What if Eric lost documents?

The irony, hypocrisy, humor and BS is thick indeed. But only from a very, very small group and only on one side of the issue. Also, this opinion from the DBNJ about the land deal...Clint doesn't believe anything that biased, horrible, twisted and jealous newspaper has to say, does he? They got it all wrong about Clint and all right about the land deal? Yes, Clint takes that bipolar position, I'm sure. It makes perfect sense to him. Too funny. Let's talk about the land deal...we can...we have the public documents. Maybe once we learn all about David Booth, we can have that conversation...but we need the records, Clint. Come on.

Will anyone question why public records were requested about the land deal? How dare they! Wait a minute, maybe some people just want to request documents to hold government accountable. Great! But not Clint's records. Not his dealings as an elected official. Oh, no! It's a vendetta. It's a conspiracy. Too funny.

Also, I've been sent postings from Clint where he documents his position on the land deal with records from last October...interesting how he has those documents...

All for now....

Pg. 26 of Clint Johnson's Contributions Report:

David Booth: 500.00 dollars - one of the first to contribute to Clint's campaign...


David Booth - of dabo.co that collected the surveys...removed information from his domain registries...removed his LinkedIn profile...basically closing up the electronic shop...after the 4/20 meeting concerning Clint Johnson being sued by the City...and all third parties possibly being pulled in...d



And this is the only one I know about...

Mayor Tweets Out Charter Violation - Charter Calls for "automatic" hearing at the May 4th Meeting:

Mayor Violates Charter by Giving "express instructions" to Staff member Eric Frankton as evidenced by Mayor's own Tweet:

Overpaid Records Manager Eric Frankton took surveys from my office against my express instructions, has refused to return them, & lost some.

Violates Sec. 4.04 of Charter: No individual member of the Council shall give orders to any officer or employee of the City.

From the Charter:

Sec. 4.07. - Forfeiture of office. Modified

A member of the Council may forfeit his/her office, if the member:


Violates any express prohibition of this Charter; or

If any of these events should occur, a hearing shall automatically be conducted at the next regularly scheduled Council meeting, and the member may be declared to have forfeited office by majority vote of the Council.


Mayor's Mingle Mangle:

A Promise is Not a Promise

Part 2 of 3

Act I of V



Unfit For Duty?

With the Mayor now being sued by the City and the City filing ethics complaints against the Mayor...is it prudent to allow him to remain in office while all of this is going on?

It's a fair question that will be explored in the upcoming days, weeks and months.


Clint sold his Eastwood Marketing business - but will not tell reporters who he sold it to - listen to the audio. Clint on "extortion": if you ask for public records and do not get them and then threaten to sue, you're an "extortionist".

So, if you exercise your state constitutional rights and they are denied and you sue to enforce your rights, you're an extortionist in Clint Johnson's "mind".

Listen to the incredulity in the interviewers' voices ask they ask Clint about the hypocrisy in what Clint wants to do to promote transparency while obscuring the governing process with private meetings:



An article that helps us understand Clint Johnson a bit more:

A sense of entitlement is not the only stereotype attached to millennials in the workplace.

“Entitled, lazy, narcissistic and addicted to social media,” according to CNBC.  

Perhaps because of this very culture of workplace-as-reality-show, Mr. Pavelski, the prevaricating treehouse builder, remains notably unchastened.

“Maybe this is because I’m young, but, like, I don’t think that there is a lot about my personal life that I wouldn’t want to incorporate into what I’m doing professionally,” he said.  




To modify a quote from a great former Councilmember who is now grinning over coffee:

"Clearly, the Mayor does not get along with...anybody up there..."

See...I told you 2016 was going to be better than 2015....I guess Chris Carson didn't vote...sorry, Chris...I had to mention the obvious...

Clint Johnson ‏ @ClintPJohnson Twitter:

Rick @ hrDwyer endorsed candidate Pat Stevenson for his seat, then insisted on a lawsuit costing tax payer dollars on her behalf. Unethical!

Overpaid Records Manager Eric Frankton took surveys from my office against my express instructions, has refused to return them, & lost some.

Mike Brady's house is right next to Lita & John Peters. Judging by last night, their ignorance and arrogance has finally rubbed off on him.

Lame duck manager Dan Parrott has for the first time in years taken to the media. Spokesperson that lies & slanders for council. Disgrace!


Why is Clint hawking suntan lotion when this guy can talk himself out of a sun burn?

But all of his talking didn’t save him from a lawsuit and ethics complaints to be filed as directed by this Council. Unprecedented but necessary action by Council.

This is now no longer a Council issue.  It is in other hands and now we can turn to City issues. Clint can make this all go away when it goes to trial.

We have a City Manager stepping down. So we need to look for a replacement.

We have a TOD to plan for and a budget to prepare for.

It's an election year - we are still suffering from the last election when Clint was elected.

It was good to see so much participation at the workshop after the Special Meeting. Too bad Clint didn’t feel it important enough to stay for City business – but he moved heaven and earth to be there for his issue - tells you where his interests rest.

This weekend: Part II of three in Act I of five of the Mayor’s Mingle Mangle


Never doubt The Great Carnac: The Mayor was there...

Dan Parrott tendered his resignation....

Why did Clint Johnson fall down the Public Records well?

He didn't see that well...

Clint Johnson sued - Council votes 4-0

Clint Johnson to have ethics complaints filed - Council votes 3-1 - CM Carson dissents

Had two months to produce records and didn't. He then simultaneously stated he didn't have all the records but was prepared to go through all the records (see Mort below). He stated he was willing to forge surveys for the records requests.

Mayor's boy Mort Culligan wears a hat indoors, drops the F-word at the podium during public participation and then insists the City and citizens follow the decorum rules. Yeah, that makes sense for the Mayor's boy to make that demand while violating it himself...at the next meeting the Mayor will insist others produce all public records...

Clint stated he's not a part of Eastwood Marketing...he "does work for them".

Clint Johnson yells, insults and pouts his way through the meeting...and then skips the City's business in the Workshop following the meeting...


Despite putting it on two different City Applications years apart, Clint Johnson DID NOT graduate from Stetson...


The Great Carnac Speaks:

Mayor Johnson Will Be At Tomorrow Night's Meeting

6PM (4/20) - Special City Council Meeting

Lawsuits and Ethics Complaints



Clint Johnson Gets Another Smack That He Deserves:



Back by POPular Demand:

The Mayor's Mingle Mangle

Act I of V

Part I of III:

A Watershed Moment

'Nuff said...



Mayor Claims Council Knew of 4/20 Departure for Cuba "for 3 months". Wow, we're that good at predicting weather?

More from the Magnificent Carnac: "Mayor will postpone trip...due to lawsuit...and "weather"....Do not doubt the Great Carnac....


Update: When irresponsible Clint Johnson's "personal issues" become phone calls, emails, and usage of City Staff time and money, then it is no longer a "personal issue".

It wasn't when he tried to dodge his financial responsibilities to JC Bikes. It wasn't when he tried to again dodge his financial responsibilities to the state for the tax on the bike. And it isn't when he's not being responsible for not returning repeated phone calls to the Coast Guard. Enough, Clint! The City does not need to be subject to such liabilities caused only by you.

If only Clint was responsible enough to take care of what the Coast Guard needed sooner rather than later, none of this would have been exposed.

Also, I don't think it's Clint's right to tell anyone what is and is not their business. Lastly, why is Clint's opinion on this matter more important or more correct than mine or anyone else's? That's what Clint likes to ask others... so I restate it here for humor...

I've received more emails from people stating they believe Clint will cancel his trip and be at the meeting on Wednesday. Many believe Clint never intended to do the Cuba trip, thus the failure to return phone calls. In addition, whether Clint rode his bike the full length of the trip last fall is also not accepted by a number of people. I for one do not believe it...I have no reason to believe much or anything Clint says.

New POP Editorial on Sunday: Mayoral Mingle Mangle...it's a great way to end and start your week...


Clint Johnson does not even have a permit to cross the ocean - Coast Guard has been trying to get in touch with Mayor for "quite some time". See Email below.

Prediction from the Great and Magnificent Carnac:

Mayor cancels trip and blames everyone and their mother for his not having a permit. JC Bikes couldn't find Clint. Coast Guard can't find Clint.

And then these guys run to the City to bother us about these "personal issues" that become City issues and liabilities.

CM Brady is right: the City needs a third party to deal with the Mayor. The Ethics Committee and a Judge.

The Council has exhausted all other means of trying to work with this guy. Clint isn't cooperative with the Coast Goard for a trip he wants.

And we are to believe Clint is cooperative with City Staff and fellow Councilmembers? Really?

So why hasn't he returned the Coast Guard's phone calls? Answer: he doesn't want to go. Never intended to go. He doesn't follow through with anything.

And I'm of the opinion most or all of Clint's supporters are just as irresponsible to defend such irresponsible behavior.

Where is CLINT????!!!!!

Why does this guy avoid the very responsibilities he puts on himself?

Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 2:28 PM


To: Clint Johnson
Subject: Permit to Cross from Cuba


I received an phone call from Marilyn Fajardo, Deputy Public Affairs Officer, U.S. Govt. Coast Guard.  She would like to speak with you regarding a permit to cross the ocean from Cuba.  Her phone number is XXXXXXXXXXX


She said they have been trying to contact you for quite some time and it’s urgent that you call her ASAP.

Jackie Caine


Sentinel Call Mayor "Chump"....Two Major Newspapers See Mayor the same way...

The Sentinel Editorial Board calls time-share king David Siegel a champ for his fight against addiction, and DeBary Mayor Clint Johnson a chump for his Cuba raft publicity stunt. 


Clint Johnson: DeBary's mayor made news with his reckless, self-indulgent plan to ride a makeshift raft across the Florida Straits to experience just what a refugee from Cuba would feel — except, of course, for trivial elements like desperation and fear of retaliation from a ruthless regime. Meanwhile, Johnson's already in the soup with his own City Council for refusing to release public records. It took the threat of a lawsuit and an ethics complaint for him to agree to go over the requests in a public meeting in May. Mayor: Ever hear of business before pleasure?


Rumor Mill:
The Rumor Mill is that Mark Burnett - Producer of "Survivor" is in talks with the Vice-Mayor and Councilmembers Carson, Dwyer and Brady. Mr. Burnett feels that these four individuals have "passed the test" in surviving this long the "incredible burdens of Clint Johnson" that they have earned a potential seat at the "Survivor" table. While this is just a rumor at this point, the fact is these four individuals have indeed outlasted and outsurvived what have been a very difficult year and four months with Clint Johnson.

These four Councilmembers are savvy enough and crafty enough to outwit the competition. They are outside the box thinkers who can forge alliances to win the day. These four individuals are agents of victory and winning. I wish them the best as they bring a new revolutionary way of winning to this series which has been falling to "old guard" mentalities where old ways of thinking are not being challenged.

If I hear more rumors about this topic...it will be reported...at this time...it is merely rumor and conjecture...


Norm Erickson requested public records.

Terrorists cut people's heads off, drown people in cages, fly airplanes into buildings, blow themselves up at airports and other heinous acts.

Mayor Johnson compared Norm Erickson to terrorists (See Twitter reference below).

Is Norm Erickson really the issue here? Is Norm Erickson really the "embellisher" here?

For those of you touched directly or indirectly by acts of terrorism doing harm or worse to friends and/or family, I can't imagine what is going through your mind with these kinds of comparisons being uttered by the Mayor of DeBary. For those of you simply overwhelmed at the loss of life due to terrorist acts, again, I can't imagine what you think or feel when you read such comparisons being bandied about by our Mayor.

Sadly, it's perhaps not unlike the same reaction of people touched in some way by the harm and/or death of those fleeing Cuba to come to America.

People requesting public documents aren't the problem or the issue.

The problem is the Mayor not fufilling those requests and not being in cooperation with the State Constituion, his oath, the City Attorney, City Manager, Vice-Mayor and three other Councilmembers.

Why is the Mayor refusing to provide public documents until May 11th?


This purposeful avoidance of the law and his responsibility as an elected official is necessarily unlawful.



Will DBNJ File a Lawsuit?

Mayor Compares Norm Erickson to "Terrorists"

From Austin Fuller's Twitter:

Apr 8

In today's : Expert: Another month for records = unreasonable; already at legal risk


"It's like negotiating with terrorists" says of public record requestors, noting Erickson


City Attorney about Mayor:

"Potential Ethics Violations"

The City Attorney opined that the Mayor's use of the City to further the Mayor's personal interests are perhaps at odds with each other and potential ethical violations. The Ethics Committee does not deal with public records issues. However, the State of the City flyer the Mayor sent out contained an ad for the Mayor's company Screenforce - that could be a no-no. The Mayor responded he has not owned it since January - didn't the flyer come out before January? Using City cards to promote himself - a possible no-no. I personally have seen a couple of different pictures of the Mayor wearing a vest with both the City seal and "Mayor" on it along with "JC Bikes" patch on it as well - the bike fiasco - personal and government - a possible no-no. The donation to St. Jude. There is a picture of a check from the Mayor made out to St. Jude's - BUT, it's only the front of the check not the back with a cancellation on it - has St. Jude's actually received said check - has anyone called St. Jude's to verify?

Final Say: The Mayor has not produced records - period. Only he has them. Some of the records would either clear or confirm these possible ethics violations. Either the Mayor has the records or he does not - either scenario is not acceptable - or lawful is my guess. Any City Clerk would be fired if he/she acted as the Mayor has under Public Record Laws.

Citizens' rights to see public records have been delayed until May 11th when the Mayor will talk about these records in public. But the Mayor also stated he did not want to talk about these potentially private records with the City Attorney.


So why would the Mayor want to talk about potentially private records in public when he hasn't in private? The Mayor had 4-6 weeks to produce the records until he received a letter from the City Attorney advising the Mayor to come forward and work with the City but as for the Mayor's rights, seek your own legal counsel. A strong letter that was sent out after many weeks of the Mayor not being cooperative - which he is not.

The Vice Mayor and three other Councilmembers did the right thing: tabled the motion for a lawsuit and ethics filing until May 11th. It's not what I would have done, but it's the right move. Compassion is never at fault. The Mayor is being given another chance. However, people who do business with Debary or want to, must be thinking: who the heck is this Mayor and do I as an investor want anything to do with him? Team Volusia has such people on it. What if there is a lawsuit filed soon as there are literally 20 such potential lawsuits out there?

Advice: the four Councilmembers should move forward with the lawsuit to protect the City. This might happen before May 11th - the Council, the City does not want to go through another lawsuit because the Mayor has not produced records.

The Mayor is quick to talk tough and spend taxpayer money to want to fight my lawsuit as is stated in the transcripts, but for himself, he has nothing - he has no money.

The Vice Mayor and the three other Councilmembers can always drop the hammer on the Mayor - and they should if the Mayor does not produce the records - on May 11th or before if need be to avoid lawsuits and exposure. The potential ethics violations need to be addressed as well - now that the subject has been brought up, I don't know how they can't.

And now, yet another (4th? 5th?) DBNJ Editorial about our Mayor who has only brought conflict and stress where none existed - remember, this is all over the most routine of matters: public records. DeBary could be sued for the Mayor's non-compliance -we should not pay for his irresponsibility.

CM Brady was right: They need help in dealing with this problem that is the Mayor. The Ethics Committee and a judge are a good start.

Lastly, during the lawsuit conversation, the Mayor likened this process, either dealing with the Council and/or Citizens to "negotiating with terrorists".

I liken dealing with the Mayor to dealing with someone with a personality disorder: lying, manipulation, vindictiveness, detached from reality, will say anything no matter how contradictory, inflated view of himself, and lacks a conscience. Perhaps a reader with some technical training in psychology can confirm or deny.

The Mayor actually stated his Cuba trip is a "personal matter" and did not want a citizen to speak about it. Freedom of speech? A rash on one's groin is a personal matter...Clint's Crazy Cuba trip is not that...but Clint thinks it is...so in his mind it is...but then, he believes when you stop attending college you've "graduated"...even if you didn't...but then...he believed that it was forged to reflect what he believes to be true anyway...so...

This is all on the record...only this Mayor, kids...only this Mayor...





Executive Session Fallout Continues...

As it related to "...if he can negotiate away that other one (the missing document - Norm), proceed with it?"

Mayor Johnson: "Bring me the text. I'll make it an original document."

"Make" something an "original" document? How does one do that, Mr. Mayor?

Is this the Mayor who accused someone else of forging a City Application? He is on the record stating he's willing to do it himself.

And we're to believe this Mayor mistakenly put down wrong information about his degree status from Stetson...twice? He didn't do it on purpose as a creative solution because he's so intellectually honest and ethically unchallenged? Yes. We're to believe that. We are to believe that the Mayor that offers up to forge a public document did not, repeat, did not put wrong information on his City Application to make himself appear in a brighter light. No, sir!


Mayor: If you're not young, no new ideas from you...

"What we're basically saying with this is if the Mayor wants to maintain his campaign promises of thinking of new ways of doing things, bringing new ideas, the reason you elect a young person, if the Mayor does that, make a lawsuit, collect $10,000."

Clint Johnson

2/3/16 Executive Session

More to come...


The missing document...and the Mayor's "creative solution"...

Mayor admits he is willing to forge documents:

From the February 3rd Executive Session:

"I would copy it and forge one today, if I could, but I don't even know what was said."

Developing...there is more to come...


Mayor's refuses to provide public documents...refuses to work with City Manager and City Attorney...City at liability for more lawsuits...meanwhile, who is watching the "store"? City Attorney sends memo to Council...so this is now coming from the City Attorney...not the Council...



Mayor Johnson:

"A frivolous Douchebag" and "Scumbag"

How does this guy know Clint?

Now, you didn't think 2016 would be better, did you?

Is this an embellishment, too?

Also, is a "frivolous douchebag" the same "frivolous" as a "frivolous" lawsuit?



So far:

Seat 1: Phyllis Butlien and Bob Garcia

Seat 2: Erika Benfield, Nick Koval and Patricia Stevenson

2016 State of the Region Address:

Mayor Johnson references Team Volusia again and how DeBary is not interested in "industry"...developing...


Clint’s Contradictory Claims

From the Deland Beacon – August 12, 2014:

DeBary mayoral candidate Clint  Johnson went to work for the  Orange  City Police Department in January 2007 as a rookie. He was fired July 9, 2007, after causing a three-vehicle crash while on duty, according to  city records.

"It wasn't because of the accident," Clint  Johnson told The Beacon. He described the accident as occurring in heavy traffic, when  Johnson thought he saw a suspect car and was distracted.

"I should have been paying more attention," he said.

Clint  Johnson remembers a mutual parting of ways.

Here is the record from the letter of termination:

“After careful consideration and review of your progress throughout your probationary period with the Orange City Police Department it is with great regret that I inform you that you have not met the standards and expectations of this department.

With this in mind I am terminating your position as a police officer with the Orange City Police Department…”

Clint Johnson caused a three way accident and that didn’t have anything to do with his termination? It was mutual?

"Now, I sure wish I had written a resignation letter. On paper, I guess, I was fired. It was a mutual thing," Clint Johnson  said.

It was mutual? Clint wanted to be fired? Fired? This sentence goes to subvert the power of the termination letter. By Clint stating it was “mutual” is an attempt to negate the power of the letter – in Clint’s mind. It’s a “power” thing. We both wanted it. In Clint’s mind, by stating it was “mutual” it’s as if he wasn’t really fired…not really…it was mutual. He did nothing wrong. This is the subtext of that statement: “It was mutual.” But, if it was mutual as Clint stated, then why regret not writing a resignation letter? It was mutual. Clint can’t even admit to reality: “On paper, I guess, I was fired.” “I guess”? Guess? Such an unwillingness and inability to face reality.

While it’s been said that Mayor Johnson is very much available to the public for information, what good is it, what use is it, when so much of what he has to say isn’t corroborated by reality. Facts. What is on the record.

I wouldn’t go into his work history if what he said in print wasn’t contravened by what is on the record. Not being intellectually honest is the status quo for too many “politicians”. “An agent of logic” – not hardly. Contradictory claims are not logical – and they so easily and quickly come out of Mayor Johnson’s mouth.

From the Beacon in the same article:

After leaving  Orange  City, he (Clint Johnson) was a reservist with Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission December 2008-July 2009.

"I've always been passionate about the outdoors," he said.

Clint  Johnson said he found the reservist job boring, and FWC records showed he left voluntarily in 2009, with no misconduct or disciplinary actions in his history.

His “passion” about the outdoors lasted all of seven months. Wow. And I’m sure, absolutely sure, he left because he was “bored”. He doesn’t even know what he wants – but he claims he does for the City.

What’s not mutual are Clint’s claims are reality.

Norm Erickson



The word "Impossible" is but an excuse for the weak and a new challenge for the bold!

Mayor Johnson, two words for you as it relates to this Cuba deal:

Boldly Go!

And now...in an unrelated matter...

Coast Guard: Nine Cuban rafters perish at sea; 18 survivors saved by cruise ship


And now back on course...

From the DBNJ:

Letters to the editor - Daytona Beach News Journal:

Letters: Raft trip a heedless stunt

Published: Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 5:30 a.m.

Johnson's arrogance

I cannot believe the scheme of DeBary Mayor Clint Johnson to cross the Florida Straits in a “raft,” claiming he loves “adventures and living outside the box.” Clearly this naive person should be confined to a box, preferably a sandbox.

Thousands of desperate people have attempted the extremely dangerous crossing of the Florida Straits in hopes of finding a better life in the United States. And many of these people died in the attempt. We lived for many years beachfront in South Florida, and witnessed many rafts landing on the beach. A lot of them were empty. Dehydration, sharks and storms are just a few of the challenges these rafters faced.

Johnson claims he wants to “better understand what Cuban refugees go through.” Well, first of all, if they are caught attempting to leave the island in this manner, they are jailed. They do not usually zip down to the local marine supply store to prepare for the journey by purchasing bolts, oar locks or personal locater beacons. Many of these rafts are little more than floating ice chests — and the horrors these refugees face drifting in the unforgiving sun and sea is not really considered an adventure.

Of course, Johnson could hire one of the many smuggling services that often dump their human cargo a mile offshore and let them try to swim to the coast. We remember what happened to Elian Gonzales — a child found clinging to an inner tube three miles offshore, after witnessing the death by drowning of his mother and 11 others. That sure was some adventure!

The U.S. Coast Guard has advised against this whimsical plan, but if the Guard should have to rescue Johnson, and he really wants the complete Cuban refugee experience, then he would be sent back to Cuba (under the “wet foot, dry foot” policy). And as taxpayers, we would pay for the search and rescue.

There is a museum in Miami that features many of the rafts used in these dangerous crossings. They are chilling examples of desperate souls, not silly fools who feel the need for a three-hour cruise. Shame on Johnson.

Leslie Gibbs

Flagler Beach

For the publicity?

In the 1960s, a good friend who was trying to break into show business as a singer/comedian told me any publicity, good or bad, is publicity. The point is to get your name out there. It worked — he did some really outrageous things, but he got his name and picture in the paper.

DeBary Mayor Clint Johnson is doing the same thing. I believe he has no intention of floating to Florida from Cuba. But he is getting free publicity with his name and picture on the front page of the paper. He is the talk around town, saying how much courage he has. I’m sure lots of other Florida papers, and probably a few big city papers, are also covering this. He will keep up the charade as long as the papers continue to cover the story. Then when the story starts to fade he will finally admit it is not a safe thing to do and cancel the trip.

However, he will have succeeded in gaining lots of name recognition. Then his name suddenly will appear where he is running for state senator, or some other state office. People will back him for being so courageous although he never made the trip, but he talked a good game. He seems to be more of a carnival barker than a leader.

With all his raft-building (out of junk parts), and sailing experience and excellent physical conditioning, he cannot be that stupid to attempt the rafting trip from Cuba to Key West.

Nice con, Clint.

Abraham Lincoln has been widely quoted as saying: “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”

Robert Yamin

Daytona Beach



Sent in by S. Stoly to POP:

Earlier this year, the Planetary Science Decadal Survey recommended that NASA consider sending a mission to the planet Uranus. With all the attention paid to Mars, Jupiter and even poor little Pluto, what's the draw in going to Uranus?

Source: http://www.space.com/13248-nasa-uranus-missions-solar-system.html

To better understand the plight of neglected planets, Mayor Clint Johnson may soon be checking out Uranus.

In a related story, there is a rumor that Mayor Johnson, in order to better understand the plight of the innocent behind bars, may incarcerate himself in a Super-Max prison, an insitution where the question posed above in response to the Planetary Science Decadal Survey's desire to go to Uranus is answered comprehensively.


Breaking Wind:

The rumor going around is that Clint Johnson is eyeing Mt. Everest to understand the plight of the sherpas...developing...


Another one from the Editor of the DBNJ Journal as well as a mention in the Orlando Sentinel: Mayor Johnson and his rafting trip garner more unwanted publicity for DeBary:

DBNJ: "Callous", "Shallow" and "Dangerous"


From the Orlando Sentinel - 100 Influential Leaders - James Coffin states:

"Why? (do this trip) So he (Mayor Johnson) can 'undertand' what migrants escaping Cuba go through when making a simliar journey?"

Also in the Orlando Sentinel is an article on "Textgate" in Orange County. They've paid many thousands of dollars in public records issues including not providing requested records. "The missing messages also prompted a public-records lawsuit by Citizens for a Greater Orange County." Elected leader do not use cell phones anymore: "It's not worth the headache."

Has Mayor Johnson given the answers to the questions posed by the City Attorney? The deadline was Friday the 11th.


Mayor’s Maxim #31

If you want authentic relationships, you must be authentic. Authenticity pays off tremendous dividends, as people can see B.S. from a mile away. Don’t be afraid to be you.

From the Mayor who twice put down on two different City applications he graduated from Stetson when he did not. And then wanted us to believe that the first application was forged and then the second one he did in his own handwriting…well…he just wrote it down so quickly…

From the Mayor who tried to get a tax exemption on state tax when he wasn’t eligible.

Having said all of that: the City applications and attempt to not pay for the bike or the state sales tax is the authentic Mayor that 56% of the public voted into office. That’s the real Clint Johnson. The yelling…the insults…all of it. That’s the real Clint Johnson. When he’s not doing that or he’s attempting to be magnanimous, that’s the BS we need to recognize from a mile away.



How Did We Get Here?



Per the City Charter, the Mayor is the "Ceremonial Head" of the City. Therefore, he is supposed to be out at events representing the City and Council. Can someone pass this on to Johnson: that he is the Head. Thank you. He keeps bragging and making a big deal that he is doing his job as Mayor...that's what he's supposed to be doing...not others...mein, Gott!

Also, is he getting those questions answered for the City Attorney instead of building a raft - which is really quite redundant given the buoyancy of excrement...that's an "old guard/troll" term for "He thinks he walks on water".

ps: A note was sent into POP: given the buoyancy of excrement, it is entirely possible that the Mayor could climb on top of Mort and just ride him in to shore...Norm: Again, this is "old guard/troll talk" for "We walk on water".

Norm Erickson


Clint Johnson – not getting along with Councilmembers –

Present AND Future…

Calling Bob Garcia a "liar"?

Clint Johnson complains about citizens telling the truth on him and "insulting" him - What did Bob Garcia do to deserve this slanderous attack from Mayor Johnson?

Also, Clint Johnson went up to the Team Volusia meeting back in September and this is from the DBNJ article:

Johnson said he didn't go to Team Volusia to "aimlessly kick people in the shins," but rather to move the conversation forward. "And I said it there because we are waiting for that worthless organization to save us, but they simply aren't bringing anything to the table," he wrote.

Johnson also wrote in an email posted on the Mayor's Mailbox website that he was "telling a bunch of blowhards at Team Volusia the truth."

What has Clint Johnson brought to the table? What did Team Volusia say as an entity or as individuals about Clint Johnson to warrant such slanderous insults from Clint Johnson?

Clint complains about citizens' criticism saying it is baseless; on what basis did Clint have to go and insult Team Volusia in such a rude manner?

From Clint Johnson's Twitter Account:

Self-serving councilmen Lita Handy-Peters & Rick Dwyer never support local events but conspire to slander & attack me constantly. Pathetic! (From Norm: now that I've read this again..."conspire" is an allegation - a serious one. Prove it or withdraw it, Clint.)

Rick & Lita don't care about DeBary. They are coward puppets for a small minority of losers in the City to perpetuate hate. Zero integrity. (From Norm: Clint, you're a coward and a liar on City applications stating you've graduated from University when you did not. But on Clint's Orange City applications prior to the City applications he did NOT put down he graduated - why? Because Clint knows if he got caught on that one, he'd be fired - how ironic given the ending of that story anyway. In fact, has Clint actually graduated from anything?)

Yes, there is a law in Florida races. No, Garcia was not required to quit on early. Another lie! (From Norm: Another lie? What are the others, Clint?)

Bob Garcia was " #ForThePeople" right up 'til he quit on #DeBary to run/lose race for State House. Then it was #SeeYa


Son...you're on your own:

Letter from the City Attorney to Clint Johnson as it relates to questions on Public Records Determination and Compliance:

"The City Manager and I are available to discuss if you should have any questions. However, if you have any questions regarding your rights and interests, you should obtain independent counsel."



Still Waiting, Mayor...

Clint Johnson – June 25th at 11:08PM: I agree with you, Jim. To that end I have hundreds of hours and a lot of money invested in working on a revolutionary solution to the inherent problems with government as it is known today.


Thank you to CM Dwyer, Carson, Brady and VM Handy-Peters for defending Freedom of Speech...




Mayor allows Mort Culligan to say what he wants about citizens, but the Mayor stops other citizens in their tracks when they say something about the Mayor...

Howard Gates called citizens "selfish" - not a word from the Mayor...

Howard Gates directed statements to CM Carson - nothing from the Mayor...Howard called CM Carson "Chris" - nothing from the Mayor...no reference of rules...


Clint Johnson proves Norm Erickson WRONG!

Foolishly I believed Clint Johnson was working with the City Manager and the City Attorney - I was wrong. The Mayor was sent an email and text message to set up a meeting with the City Attorney and City Manager - the Mayor declined and did not set a follow up meeting. "Send me the questions and I will respond accordingly" was the Mayor's reply. I have the documents.

Well, both the City Attorney and the City Manager are on the record stating that when the Mayor responds, that's all he does. "He (the Mayor) responds but he does not answer."

Now we will commence email tag, text tag, etc,. Why, Mayor? Why can't you just fulfill these requests? Why the games? Why do you refuse to work with the City Manager and City Attorney to avoid future legal entanglements?

Once lawyers for citizens become involved, costs are incurred and the City will once again be put on the hook. Perhaps we've been going too light on the Mayor. We need to go to meetings and participate and hold him accountable. This liability to the City needs to stop.

Norm Erickson



Mayor Makes His Own Case

From Mayor Johnson’s blog:

The Problem

  • Every member of Council is elected ‘at large’ which has led to 4 out of 5 elected representatives residing in our Golf & Country Clubs. I am the only leader from outside that area.
  • The old-guard establishment is very strong in DeBary and will vehemently oppose anyone they consider to be a threat to their control on the local politics.

Clint Johnson is not a leader. Mayor Johnson has been going on about how he is the only non-Country Club member on the Council.  He is implying or simply stating that somehow this has had a positive effect on our City. That living in a Country Club and being on the Council has somehow brought shame to our City. That being “old guard” is not something we want on the Council – it creates problems for our City. These two items, Councilmembers from Country Clubs and the “old guard” are “problems” so says our Mayor.


I have at least six articles and/or editorials from only the News-Journal about the Mayor’s behavior and his many problems. About the Mayor’s insults. His temper tantrums. His censure.  His insulting words to Team Volusia.  His insulting words to citizens.  His attempt to avoid paying for a bike - and then the bike’s sales tax by claiming an exemption he does not have.  It’s come out how the Mayor put wrong information about himself on City applications in, perhaps, the attempt to appear to be more than what he actually is. And, of course, the lawsuits.  And many others that escape my mind at the moment.

So, the Mayor’s argument for not having County Club residents and/or the “old guard” on the Council is easily and too often rebutted by the Mayor’s very own behavior and personality. Indeed, he makes the case for Country Club residents and "old guard" citizens to make up the Council: I don't read any articles about them bringing shame to our City.  

It’s often the case: in looking for an excuse elsewhere for all of this conflict and stress, the Mayor ultimately proves to be the source of it all. He defines the “problem” as being out there. Those people. It’s them - hoping we'll look away.

No, Clint. It’s you.

Romans 2:3: Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things (even if they don’t - Norm) and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

You may escape God’s Judgement, Clint, but not mine. Like my computer, I’m an Old Testament kind of guy: a lot of rules and no mercy.

Norm Erickson




Where are we at with the non-investigation, investigation of the Mayor?

I'm going to give Clint the benefit of the doubt and just assume (Yes, I know about that word) that he is working on the public records requests to avoid future lawsuits and save citizens some money. Citizens have the right to request records. Elected officials have the duty to fulfill that request. Clint must work with the City Attorney and the City Manager to fulfill the several or more than several outstanding records requests. The City Staff is in the middle here as Clint has the documents. Obviously the word is out to lawyers that this is an issue and it no longer will it be perceived as rhetoric that legal action very well might be taken.

I assume that Mayor Johnson has been meeting with the City Attorney and City Manager to fulfill these requests. I assume he has been doing his due diligence to avoid further issues.

Also, it's come out that Clint will be endorsing Candidates this election season. I really want to know who Clint will be endorsing..I want to know who wants Clint's endorsement...so...secret squirrels...let me know when you know...thanks.

Norm Erickson


Johnny Crawford who played Mark McCain on The Rifleman from the late 50’s to early 60’s. He also recorded songs and the link below is a request and dedication. It was recorded on the Del-Fi label 4181…it’s top drawer, rare air stuff…just the facts it’s the best on wax:

Click here for a listen...



The Secret Squirrels are busy, busy:

Litmus Test for Candidates - as sent in by a citizen:

We need to know if the candidates support Johnson;

that alone is the litmus test at the voting booth.


Isn't this the Mayor's street that HE was supposed to keep clean? Sent in by a Citizen:



One Johnson is More Than Enough for Anyone




From Clint Johnson’s Mayor’s Mailbox:

I get it… You have lives, jobs, kids, stuff to do besides show up at a stupid city council meeting. Heck, if I didn’t have to be there, I wouldn’t most of the time.

Unfortunately, the hateful minority does not seem to have those kind of priorities and show up every week to grovel, slander, threaten & complain. This weak city council caters to them because it is easier to appease the 10 haters in front of them and ignore the 19,890 other residents.

If you are tired of cool progressive ideas that could move this city forward being insulted, ignored, marginalized and ultimately ruined by that hateful clique, & silly technicalities being exaggerated into major issues, we must find a way for more participation from the unrepresented majority. Any ideas?

I have an idea:

  • Meetings aren’t stupid, you are, Mr. Johnson for putting yourself in this position. What did you think it was going to be? You didn’t fall into it. I’d like to see ex-Mayors and Councilmembers come to the podium and tell Mr. Johnson that the meetings are not stupid. The meetings are necessary to govern our City. Mr. Johnson’s descriptions of our City, current City Council members and our meetings are indistinguishable from Mr. Culligan’s descriptions.

What “cool progressive ideas” are you talking about? I defy Mr. Johnson to actually state specific “ideas” or “things” that back up his rhetoric of “moving this City forward” and “doing as I campaigned”. All so much bluster as evidenced below from Mr. Johnson’s website – parenthetical commentary is mine:

In fact, it has only bolstered my motivation, proving by their response that my fight is a worthy charge. (What is your fight? Voting on cardrooms in which no application was submitted?)

They know their charge lacks real substance. (I think there are 10 thousand reasons not to believe this statement.)

They are scared because they know I am the most conservative person on council.. (Who voted to raise the Stormwater Assessment (TAX) over 100%...yeah…ok…)

  I made a promise to this city that I will see through, no matter how nasty my opposition becomes. (What promise? Lawsuits? Conflict? Stress? Bad manners? How do you know anything about “they” when you don’t even know how to fill out an application…TWO applications about YOURSELF? And you know what other people are thinking? Too funny.)

It came out at the Workshop last week that Attorney Mark Watts will be bringing the CRA issue to DeBary around Sunrail. Before we do a 100,000 dollar study to send up to the County, can someone call the County and just ask them if “they’re in the mood” for a CRA? This was done last time, just a few years ago – not back in 2004 - and it saved us some big bucks. Thanks.

As far as I know, I'm only the second person to put this in print, but Mayor Johnson is the proto - Donald Trump Presidency: a business person putting themself into a government box with parameters that are, more than likely, not wanted. No, Clint, I'm not comparing your business acumen to the Donald...so calm down...

Part II: The son of Lucas McCain, The Rifleman, sets Clint Johnson straight...it'll be good...

Norm Erickson




I had some “Secret Squirrels” email in about the Mayor not being a Realtor in 2014. I’ve pulled the emails into one response:

Regarding Mr. Johnson’s real estate license, he held a Florida Real Estate Sales Associate license.  That does not make him a Realtor.  A Realtor is someone who has a state issued license AND is a member of the local Association of Realtors. 

The local association that could tell you if he was a Realtor would by the West Volusia Association of Realtors in Orange City.

So, he was neither licensed by the state, nor was he a member of the Association at the time of the Connoley interview - two lies. **See editorial below

If the Mayor and Pinocchio bumped into each other, Pinocchio would lose an eye.


When the question is asked, “Why the lawsuit about the Mayor’s Mailbox?”, it appears the following dynamic is created:

            It puts demands on a citizen to explain why they exercised their right given to them in the State’s Constitution while at the same time marginalizing at best if not outright ignoring the elected official who disregarded the State Constitution’s requirement which compels elected officials to produce public documents.

Just an observation.

I could be wrong.

Norm Erickson


We know more about what Clint is not...

Another one, Clint? Really? Just tell the whole truth about yourself...or did someone sabotage the State of Florida's DBPR website, too? I'm sure you'll say someone did...developing new story on our Mayor...



Clint Johnson: A Renegade to his own demands in his own words...



Are any of these the Mayor's new "pets" and what might they cost the City?

JC Cycles at Sunrail

Hennin sales office at Sunrail

Business next to the German bakery

Frisbee golf business next to nature park

Some other business he said he brought

Revolutionary way of voting

Others I have forgotten...


Yelling, Screaming, Threats of being removed if you talk...

No, that's not what citizens did to Mayor Johnson...it's how he acted toward citizens at his first meeting. I'm sure he'd love to have people believe he didn't start any of this stuff...that it was all sunshine and rainbows...in the beginning...

The rearview mirror:


G - O - N - E

Mayor moves his mailbox...


The Mingle Mangle

Almost a thousand homes of different sizes have been approved with the Costa and Riviera Bella projects. Walmart is underway. DeBary is changing. Positives. Negatives. We are still pursing senior exercise playgrounds so if you are interested, contact CM Dwyer or the City Manager if you want to be on the committee. Debary is growing. Roof tops and businesses. Make of it what you will.

The Mayor’s Mailbox is gone; however, just as the Mayor’s responses to questions about the bicycle, his non-degree graduation from Stetson he listed on two separate applications, and other issues have shown: his answers are as infected with misinformation as a streetwalker is with syphilis. And just as that pox tends to pop up in unwanted times and places, so too, I fear, will the Mayor’s Mailbox reappear to cause some burning and irritation.

On the side of the Mayor’s Mailbox it reads: “Let YOUR Voice Be Heard!” How? When? The Mayor said a private company collected the surveys. The Mayor never read them. He’s never brought to Council any suggestion from a survey for possible action. When were the people’s voices heard? Why did the Mayor do all of this? To be busy looking busy? Looking political? Looking status quo? Only to claim he’s not a status quo politician? Makes absolute sense with this guy. He thinks if he quotes enough leaders, he'll become one.

We have an election this year. Boy, 56% got it wrong with Mr. Johnson. What about this year? Will the citizens have learned? We’ll see. Mayor Garcia already has his paperwork in. And he’s willing to let titles go by the wayside and run for a Councilmember’s seat. I like that. Dan Hunt? Nick Koval? Rick Dwyer? Phyllis Butlien? Lenny Marks? Okay, that last one was just to tweak some noses. Four years is a long time, people. Better get it right this time.

From ARTICLE VI of the City of DeBary’s Ordinances:

Sec. 2-250. - Declaration of legislative intent.

· It is hereby declared that the management, preservation and availability of the city's records, both public and private, are in the interest of the public health, safety and general welfare of the public of and visitors to the City of DeBary. Therefore, this article is intended to:

(1) Effect and accomplish the identification, management, preservation, availability and study of public and private records;

(2) Safeguard the city's documentary history, heritage and unique attributes;

Sec. 2-254. - DeBary Records Management and Archives Program.

In this regard the custodian, among other things that may be required for the proper and efficient management of the public records of the city, shall:

(1) Organize and administer the city records management program;

(2) Develop and circulate such policies and procedures as may be necessary and proper to implement and maintain the records management program;

(5) Maintain documentation on the disposition of public records;

(Ord. No. 11-07, § 5, 3-7-07)

Ok. So, how is this really being followed when Mayor Johnson has I don’t know how many private email accounts? When he isn’t using a City laptop computer? Councilmembers are City employees…kind of. If the City is sued for something the Mayor has done, the City should divorce him and tell him he’s on his own. The first time, fine. But anymore…

If he’s not going to cooperate, why implicate the City? The City literally cannot adhere to Florida Statutes when it comes to the Mayor’s public records because they do not have access to them. Why does the Mayor insist on not using the City server? Why does he insist on making things so difficult? Why does he insist on skirting City Codes, laws, statutes? Why?

Some things in DeBary are changing, growing and moving forward. For good or not so good. Some things will not be changing. Personalities can not be cured or changed. So while DeBary is now in some very interesting times that are paving the way for our future, for the next three years, we’ll continue to have outbreaks of the Mayor’s behavior and “projects” that all too often already have resulted in taxpayer monies being used to cure.

Norm Erickson – I voted for Jack Lenzen.



From 3 weeks ago:

From: Lisa Roberson  
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 12:29 PM
To: Clint Johnson; Chris Carson; Rick Dwyer; Mike Brady; Lita Handy-Peters; Dan Parrott
Subject: Mayor's Mailbox - Temporary Location

Hello Everyone,

Please remove the Mayor's Mailbox from its current temporary location in the parking lot at Debary Commons Shopping Center. Thank you so much.

Lisa Roberson
Vice President of Property Management

Clint Johnson - you have to move that mailbox...get on it...get responsible...the last time you refused to do what you were supposed to do, it cost the City many, many thousands...do you not respect the property rights of others. Here is a private landowner being obstructed by an elected official claiming not to advance the "status quo"...


And he's off!

The Campaign Committee for Bob Garcia would like to inform you that as of today, February 5th at 9:24am we have received written confirmation from City Hall that Bob Garcia has qualified by Petition for DeBary City Council - Seat 1. 


The Mingle Mangle



I'm not getting a penny from the lawsuit. It's a public records suit. When public records are denied, citizens can either lump it or sue to see the records. Had they been given over, all of this could have been avoided - Norm


The all time quote about rail supporters from Houston's Mayor Lanier: “First they say, `It's cheaper.'  When you show it costs more, they say, ` It's faster.'  When you show it's slower, they say, `It serves more riders.'  When you show there are fewer riders, they say, `It brings economic development.'  When you show no economic development, they say, `It helps the image.'  When you say you don't want to spend that much money on image, they say, `It will solve the pollution problem.'  When you show it won't help pollution, they say, finally, `It will take time. You’ll see.”

Bob Lanier, before becoming Mayor of Houston

quoted in Houston Metropolitan Magazine, 

November 1990, page 49.

2/3: Ridership is important because it generates revenue. Operating SunRail in its first year cost $34.4 million. Ridership only accounted for $2.1 million. The train had other revenue sources, such as advertising totaling another $5 million, but that left the state to pick up the rest of the $27 million.

And the state of Florida is not scheduled to cover those costs starting in 2021. That burden falls on the five local partners — including Volusia County.


From the DBNJ - 8/22/14:

In an interview, Johnson said he lists his address as 389 Detroit Terrace, a vacant lot, because he owns the lot, plans to build a home there and receives his mail there. He rents a one-bedroom home on adjacent land owned by his parents. Both properties are within the DeBary city limits.

He worked for the Orange City Police Department and was terminated six months later after a three-vehicle crash in his squad car that an investigator determined was his fault, city records show. Johnson said his style was not a good fit with the department and he did not contest the firing, which occurred within his probationary period.

Mayor's Mailbox...going...going....and:

CENSEO...are they coming to DeBary?

From Censeo's Website:

The danger of "brilliant jerks": "Some companies tolerate them. For us, the cost to effective teamwork is too high.



City Meeting on 2/3 @ 7:30



1/31: Sent in by Mrs. Sandler with her permission to post here:

Mr. Mayor,

You are constantly whining on social media about the fact that you are trying to bring “Fresh, New and Bold Ideas” to DeBary yet are being shot down by the “old guard” on the City Council.  I’m a little confused by your rhetoric, as I have been attending Council meetings for ten months now and the only item that I have seen you bring to the table is the Poker Room.  You never add items to the official agenda but rather throw out haphazard thoughts at the end of the meetings.  Obviously, the other members of Council have not voted down your ideas, as they are never even given the opportunity to discuss or vote on them.  To use an “old” expression, it’s time to put your money where your mouth is.  If you feel strongly about something, add it to the agenda so that it can be intelligently discussed and voted upon.  If for whatever reason, you choose not to do this, then please refrain from blaming your fellow Council members for your lack of action.

You profess to be a proponent of bringing new retail businesses to DeBary; however, you made the following  statement on your Twitter account:  “Being a “death to the brick-n-mortar kinda guy”, I do enjoy walking around the mall (before buying on Amazon).  Guess it’s kind like a museum.”  Hmmmm….makes me wonder how you can represent yourself as a representative of the City of DeBary who wants to bring new retail businesses to DeBary.  Can you provide me with an explanation?

I had high hopes that 2016 would be a better year for DeBary and wanted so badly to believe that you would refrain from calling your constituents and fellow Council members names; however, that hope was short lived.  You continue to blame everyone else for your shortcomings.  I’m sorry to say that it looks like we’re in for another tumultuous year. 

                                     Joan Sandler


To:  Joan Sandler
Cc: Rick Dwyer <RDwyer@DeBary.org>; Lita Handy-Peters <LHandy-Peters@DeBary.org>; Mike Brady <MBrady@DeBary.org>; Chris Carson <CCarson@DeBary.org>; Dan Parrott <DParrott@DeBary.org>
Subject: Re: Your Fresh, New, Bold Ideas

Don't be so dramatic. I like your comments about the nature park. 





On Jan 22, 2016, I Bob Garcia former Mayor of Debary met with my Campaign Committee and residents of Debary to discuss the PROS and CONS of re-entering the political arena in Debary. After Forty-Nine years of service in the Military, Community Involvement and in the Political Arena I still have a strong desire to serve Debary. I have already picked up my Candidate & Campaign packet and I will be opening my campaign account on Monday Feb 1 st, 2016. I am formally announcing my Candidacy for Debary City Council Seat-1.



Can the Mayor ever be totally honest? And this guy is collecting money for...what again?

Mayor Johnson is claiming that he did not receive emails - particularly the one from the property owner of Winn-Dixie about the Mayor's Mailbox.

The Mayor, literally posted a screen shot on FB that shows he did receive the email while the Mayor stated simultaneously he did not - this is typical of his personality and we've come to expect it. On that post on FB it reads thusly:

Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups: mayor@teamdebary.com

Mayor, you found out that emails were not being correctly delivered to your personal email address from your City email inbox. However, you failed to mention that they were all correctly received at your city provided email address. Why did you not read them there?

Don’t try to make the people believe the fault for your failing to read emails was not yours.  The screen shot you provide on FB proves that the emails were in your city mailbox, and the city server attempted to send them to your private email.  You had the emails, don’t lie your way out of this one.

Norm Erickson


When FB reported that the Mayor's Mailbox was going to be moved, the Mayor responded:

Clint Johnson: “Checked my email & mail & heard nothing about it.”

Really? POP to the rescue. Here is the email, Mayor:

From: Lisa Roberson  
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 12:29 PM
To: Clint Johnson; Chris Carson; Rick Dwyer; Mike Brady; Lita Handy-Peters; Dan Parrott
Cc: Chad Tullos
Subject: Mayor's Mailbox - Temporary Location

Hello Everyone,

Please remove the Mayor's Mailbox from its current temporary location in the parking lot at Debary Commons Shopping Center. Thank you so much.

Lisa Roberson
Vice President of Property Management
Stafford Properties, Inc.

Next excuse, Mayor?

Property Management requests City to remove the Mayor's Mailbox.

Rich Gailey:

Since I have not been bestowed the honor to post on DeBary Proud I will post my concern about the Mayor's lies about a local businessman, here. Jimmy McCleary, who owns Tropical Screen Rooms, is licensed and insured and is an honorable business man. He has been doing screen rooms longer than he has been in ministry if you are looking for a man with impeccable integrity to do your job. Most of you probably know of him because he started Crosswaves and Crossover ministries over 20 years ago. Many of the youth who have come to know Jesus Christ through these ministries are kids that have come from broken homes and the streets. Jimmy has been in Ministry in SW Volusia more than 90% of the pastors in our area. He does not get paid any money to run these ministries. He is like the Apostle Paul who used his business to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with these kids. If the Mayor of DeBary has any character left he will Man Up and ask for forgiveness for his assinine comments he made on DeBary Proud on a pleased customer's post. Just because you are in the same business as Jim McCleary and you are the Mayor or DeBary does not give you spotlight to run a fellow businessman and disciple of Jesus Christ down. You are an embarrassment to the City of DeBary.

P.S. If Mayor Johnson needs any help figuring out the biblical doctrine on forgiveness Jimmy McCleary and the thousands of children he has been a mentor to around Central Florida will be able to help you.


Yet another DBNJ Editorial on the Mayor - broad based and in-depth:




Not Qualified to Teach...but more than eligible for Mayor: Teacher Lies about Degree and Resigns...oh my...the value of an actual education...people who lie about degrees to enchance themselves due to low self-esteem...only to then bash the value of education...who would do such a thing?



Correction: Costa Project Moves Forward: 3-0

Three Councilmembers cast a verbal vote of "Yes" for the project. Neither CM Dwyer nor the Mayor cast a verbal vote. And while the two abstaining did not dissent when asked if there were any "Nays", I think that argument is one for mediocrity and less transparecy rather than clarity and simplicity.

As citizens, we should demand all of our elected officials including the Mayor to verbally cast a "Yes" or "No" vote on issues as is called for by the City Charter. In fact, isn't that why we don't do roll call voting...because the Mayor stated the Charter demands "ayes" and "nays"? The Mayor doesn't even do that. Why didn't CM Dwyer vote on the issue? Maybe the Mayor's bad behavior is rubbing off on Dwyer.

Maybe the Mayor has become Dwyer's mentor...maybe Dwyer will want to talk with other Councilmembers privately the way the Mayor does with VM Handy-Peters...only time will tell...

Norm Erickson

Costa Project Moves Forward - 4-0

Mayor continues to act like a yutz...to expect otherwise would be madness on our part...

From Mayor Johnson’s Twitter:

Headline: "City Manager picked to LEAD Orange City" Why is someone appointed given more authority and power than any elected representative?

Why are you Mayor Johnson trying to take on more power and authority than you actually have? Why are you trying to do end runs around Sunshine Law and trying to be above the law? Why are you doing things supposedly as a private citizen that end up costing taxpayers money? Why are you trying to trade on your title of Mayor to get things from various people in the city like a bike or advertising in a newsletter? Did you make money off of that, Mr. Mayor? How could we possibly know – will you open up the books? Should we trust you after the myriad of, I’ll be kind, inaccuracies you have uttered about a number of issues?

City Managers can’t do very much without Council’s permission. On the other hand, Councilmembers only have “power” when that gavel comes down at the beginning of the meeting. It goes away at the end of the meeting.

Norm Erickson




Mayor is asked to "cease and desist":

A letter from Chapman Law sent a letter to Bell & Roper asking Mayor Johnson to "cease and desist" in his defamatory remarks about a former City Staffer - but those lawyers are representing Mr. Johnson in another matter.

The letter stated, in part,:

Mr. Johnson has been defaming my client, Stacy Tebo, by falsely claiming that she forged or altered his application(s) for positions within the City of DeBary. These statements have been made by Mayor Johnson to various individuals and to the press. Most notably, in a story run on WFTV (Channel 9) it stated:

"The mayor accuses a former city staffer who was fired for changing the type of degree listed in an application of creating controversy even though Johnson admits he has no proof of that."

Ms. Tebo is the only staffer who has been fired and therefore it is clear that Mayor Johnson is referring to her. If he does not immediately stop making such false and defamatory statements, Ms. Tebo will file suit against him.

Martha Chapman



It's not YOU, Mr. Mayor...it's all of us

The DBNJ's 4th or 5th editorial about our Mayor...it's not him...it's US...it's us, people:



No more insults - 2016 will be different:

Lita Handy-Peters could probably be a good council-woman if she quit being a total puppet to her loser husband John


Last night Mayor Johnson tried to make us believe 2 + 2 = 5 by stating the Charter called for a new Vice Mayor to be elected. Here is the language from the Charter:

Sec. 4.03. - Vice Mayor.

At the first regularly scheduled meeting following the City's general election, the Council, by a majority vote, shall elect from among its membership a Vice Mayor

Did we have an election in November? The Mayor can’t get this right and we’re supposed to just take his word on other complex issues as if he can read, evaluate and assess…anything? He insulted CM Carson by stating this should be done in honor of his last year, only to state later that he was doing it because he could not talk privately with VM Handy-Peters. Sunshine Law? Can this guy ever be honest?

But then again, this is the Mayor that can’t understand the following from our Charter:

Sec. 5.02. - Commencement of term.

The terms of members of the Council shall begin on January 1st of the year following the election.

Go to the link below to see Mayor Johnson’s current “term of service” being 1 year and 6 months according to the Mayor. Can this guy ever tell the truth? Some people are just more comfortable embellishing themselves than telling the truth or being able to discern the truth.

Clint Johnson

August 2014 – Present (1 year 6 months)




Citizen editorial by Patricia Stevenson

Dec 29 Informational Meeting, for Rezoning, PUD proposal by Steve Costa

A Beacon article back on October 15 th previewed the plans we heard at tonight’s meeting.  The proposed Ft. Florida Commons is located on 300 acres between Ft. Florida, Barwick, the power plant, and the River Bend.  The “U-shaped” development borders a previous development, a subdivision called “Meadowlea”.  Most residents in attendance had received certified letters about the meeting, and were prepared with questions for the property owner Steve Costa. 

The proposal, presented by Mr. Costa, is a “Planned Urban Development”, a binding agreement between the city and a developer, to meet certain minimum standards such as traffic, education, and storm water management.  The “Vision” presented is a working sustainable “agri-community”, with edible landscaping, community gardens, and public access to two primary bike trails.  Out of 300 acres, 50 acres is planned for “single family” residential, 50 acres for “townhomes” , 20 acres for “ponds”,  and 40 acres of “open/natural” space.   The “resource corridor” along the river bend would remain intact, along with 20’buffer zones.  2 acres on the corner of Ft. Florida and Barwick is requested commercial, for a farmers market, co-op etc.  

The main questions from residents centered around traffic and drainage, as well as the preservation of the natural beauty and wildlife.  Proposed entrances on Ft. Florida and Barwick means those roads will need to be improved, culverts raised and brought up to code.  Some residents already have drainage issues, so this will probably be the biggest hurdle, mainly due to the low topography of that area.  Attractive and functional water features were highlighted during the TOD planning meeting, and I would like to see more detailed plans specifically related to water management.

Property values are always of a concern, and the first thing Mort told me he wanted was low income housing for his “brothers”.  Rest assured that is not the plan, rather the single family residences proposed will have minimum 1600 square feet (Townhomes  will have a minimum 1500 square feet), and have a estimated value starting in the low $200’s.  This project is being presented as part of a sustainable community model, is located close to the train, and my first impression says:  I like this plan!  Happy New Year, I am looking forward to more discussion at the next meeting Jan 6, voting anticipated to take place Jan 20.



This is open to the public but it's purpose is to share information and answer questions from residents within 200 feet of the proposed development.
It is a proposed re-zoning..the Council can negotiate the terms, density, etc. on this project.

But tomorrow night is an informational meeting required by our Codes.

A similar proposal was brought to Council 9 years ago and is documented in POP Archives...


This is what responsible, mature adults do: they correct the record and admit they were wrong. They don't pass it off on others or try to make us eat an excrement sandwich of outlandish explanations and tell us how good it is...even with cheese on it. It's like training up a child. The Mayor should put his "explanations" on an Etch-A-Sketch.

The Mayor and the truth? I've never seen anyone so overmatched since Mike Tyson tried to recite the alphabet.



I was talking to a citizen the other day about our Mayor's woes. The citizen remarked, "Well, that's who the people voted for." Really? I took a friendly exception to what the citizen had said: "No, who we have now as Mayor is not who campaigned for office."

Evidence? Click on the link below and listen to the Clint Johnson from May of 2014.

This is who the 56% of the people voted for...is it what they got?

Elections don't end in November on election day...








What a great performance was given by the Orange City Orchestra under the direction of Maestro Rick Dwyer on Saturday December 19 th. This was their eighth Christmas Concert performed at the Community United Methodist Church (free of charge to all who attended) and was preformed to a standing room only audience (approximately 300).

The orchestra was at its best with each selection played with total professionalism. Maestro Dwyer had them right on target.

The members of the orchestra are all volunteers and are more than willing to share their God-given talents. They give hours of their time to practices and rehearsals just to perform for us, the musically-challenged people. I want to personally thank them for sharing their talents and making the Christmas season a lot brighter, also the Community United Methodist Church for hosting the event.

There was an audience sing-along and what a great job the audience did. It reminded me of the old fashioned Christmases, just like the one’s I used to know. Thanks for the memories Orange City Orchestra.

With the orchestra tuned up, the clock precisely at 7PM, the murmur of the crowd hushed and the maestro at the podium, the magic of the Christmas Concert began.

A special thanks to Maestro Dwyer and the Orange City Orchestra for giving of their time and to share their talents with others. If you missed this event, you missed an opportunity for a most enjoyable evening.

The orchestra puts on a series of concerts throughout the year at no cost to all who attend. It’s FREE for anyone who wants to go. Keep your eyes and ears open for their next concert and make sure you get yourself there.

I hope they will be back to do other performances next year. They are a treasure for all of us to enjoy.

Thanks again for the Christmas memories that the orchestra gave to all.

Merry Christmas and a Happy Healthy New Year to all.

Lenny Marks

The Power of POP?

DBNJ News Article:




I Want OFF!

Trying to Take the City for a Ride

Last week (12/17) I suggested that Clint Johnson pay for the bike he used on the 800 mile trip he took. He has not. So, the business is now looking to the City to pay. JC’s Bikes and Boards sent a Work Order to the City’s accountant for the amount of $2763.11. The City is refusing to pay. While the bike is 1475.00 the Garmin Edge 1000 is 525$. Along with other materials such as clothing and shoes…it’s a financial ride the City needs to continue to opt out of.

I feel for the business owner who believed Clint was representing the City during the wheeling and dealing of the two-wheeler which has been going on since July, but Clint needs to pay his bills. The owner felt that when Clint came into the business wearing a City of DeBary shirt, asked for help, it was the City asking for help. In an email to the City from the business the issue was put this way: “At this point a DeBary elected official has used the City name to steal from a local small business.”

Oh boy. Not the way we want to start 2016.

But I actually find this from the Mayor more interesting when it comes to how he might have paid for the bill:

When Clint was asked about the donations for the “stuff” – bicycle and other items, Clint’s response was:

“Most of the donations have been made out to “friends of Volusia trails” so they aren’t cash in hand.”

Ok. So, the donations to the “Friends of Volusia Trails” were to be used to pay for the bike?

I asked this question last week when there were contradictory statements on Facebook. I think it is now fair game to ask: Where is all of this money going? So anyone giving cash to Friends of Volusia Trails – what happened to their money? These are 501-C3 organizations, aren’t they? Where is the oversight?

Now the bidding online? Remember that. Here was Clint’s solution:

“I guess if people can bid on this bicycle, a higher sticker price will get a higher return. (If it bids bad, I’ll have the ability to “self bid” and win it to do something different).”

I hope this doesn’t come before the Council. I don’t know if this crosses into “recall” issues if Clint was passing himself off as “Mayor” to this business. But this needs to be cleared up. It makes the City look bad. It makes it look like an elected official is using the City to steal from a local business. Where is the money being collected going? How do we know?

Clint Johnson needs to stop bringing the “Mayor” into these private dealings which, when they go sideways, become “City” issues. It needs to stop. Now.

Who was the complete idiot who was thinking of shutting this website down?

Norm Erickson






The Mingle Mangle:

Mayor Marcel Marceau



“Don’t give the prick the satisfaction, Sir.”

Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge

While we’ll still have the Mingle Mangle there will be no more “Mayor’s” Mingle Mangle.   It doesn’t help the City move forward and it doesn’t help the Council move forward.  And, quite frankly, the focus of POP is City issues.

I will still receive, I’m sure, the Mayor's postings from various social media sites and all of that – if it crosses over to a City issue, particularly Sunshine Law violations, POP will cover it. If it is just postings to churn up and chum up the waters for attention…well…not as interested.

2016 is a year of possibilities with development and an election. Anyone willing to run and possibly work with this Mayor: God Bless you.  Whether you are friend or foe of the Mayor, know this: if you disagree with the Mayor on an issue, he very well might turn on you.

Evidence: the Mayor did exactly that on the two minor issues of roll call voting (done for years) and keeping public participation at the beginning of Council meetings (done for…well, over the last decade if not since our City’s inception).  The Mayor was very upset that the other four did not see it his way. The “disrespect”. “Indignation”. Etc,.

While POP is sharpening its focus and the Vice-Mayor and CM Brady, Dwyer and Carson continue to concentrate on Agenda items, let’s dream that the Mayor will think back on Wayne Duprey’s words of insight from the podium: “It’s like it's never you, Clint. It’s always somebody else. It's always somebody else. ” I think Wayne's words that night summed up the issue perfectly. And I know he supported him and took no pleasure in saying what he did...but he said it well.

Let’s hope 2016 sees some change in our Mayor’s treatment of citizens and fellow Councilmembers.  After all, it’s a time of miracles. And if he doesn’t and continues to post and behave with such falderal, we’ll just move along with City business.

Norm Erickson


Mayor Johnson , who complains about "status quo" politicians and "old guard" mentalities, votes "No" on bringing better growth in TOD area and moving this City forward with better options for growth- something the Mayor says he likes to do.

Mayor makes the case for roll call votes as the voting was so muddled that people were asking who voted how - I'm talking about Councilmembers asking who voted how...Mayor can't verbally cast his vote. I thought he didn't have a problem voicing his position on things?

Ultimately, the Mayor simply blows more smoke than the Sistine Chapel during a papal election.

Mort Culligan violated public participation rules for Special City Council meetings while admonishing the Council for not adherring to public participation rules.

Only in DeBary, kids...only in DeBary.



The Mayor's Mingle Mangle:

Rhetoric Over Accuracy


Part II of V



City of DeBary Website gets it wrong - they have the Mayor's term of office starting in January of this year: 1-1-15. That's when he was installed as Mayor. CLICK HERE FOR LINK TO CITY

But, the Mayor has the right information on his LinkedIn page as sent in by a reader. Go to the link yourself. The Mayor has his term of office beginning in August of 2014. Quote: – Present (1 year 5 months)

City of DeBary...please change the information on your website - Clint Johnson has been our Mayor since August of 2014...the start and stop times of terms of office needs to be...correct.

To say that Mr. Johnson became Mayor in January and not August is an embellishment of 5 months...we do not want that to happen.




WFTV: "DeBary Mayor lied about college degree in city applications"

From The Music Man:

Mayor Shinn: "He's slipperier'n a Mississippi sturgeon"

I can't believe POP is gonna stop with all of this happening...

I attended SUNY Potsdam - but did not graduate - but now, according to the Mayor, I graduated the day I left.

I attended SUNY New Paltz - but did not graduate - but now, according to the Mayor, I graduated the day I left.

I once visited the men's room at Yale...

Do you have a degree and not know it?

Mayor said he hastily filled out application in 2014 and provided false information. Now claims a former staffer changed the information in 2012 application with the same false information though he has no proof. But, the Mayor agrees that the information listed is acceptable because that's the date he feels he graduated.

So, the staffer changed it to the day he feels he graduated anyway? Quote from Mayor: "The day I graduated is the last day I attended school..."

So, according to the Mayor, someone forged something, information about his "graduation date", that the Mayor says he agrees with - this is an issue?

He's really saying that?

Also, from WFTV: During his campaign, Johnson said he never told voters that he's a college graduate.

The date on the application for Interim City Council Member is June 26th, 2014 - that's when Mayor Johnson was campaigning- so he put that on an application but didn't "tell" anyone? That dog don't hunt.



The real Norm Erickson


When you tell the truth...you don't have to remember anything:

From Clint Johnson's Application - August of 2012:

Q: How long have you been a resident of DeBary? A: 14 Years

Got it.

From Clint Johnson's Application - June of 2014 (2 years later):

Q: How long have you been a resident of DeBary? A: 13 years

14 years...then 2 years later...13 years...

"I usually take a two-hour nap from one to four." Yogi Berra

The Mayor knows what you mean, Yogi.



Do we get to know now, Mr. Mayor? An oldie but goodie posted by the Mayor on FB back in June as previously shared on POP - I asked the Mayor about this from the podium - he said it was going to be a Christmas surprise....:

Clint Johnson – June 25th at 11:08PM: I agree with you, Jim. To that end I have hundreds of hours and a lot of money invested in working on a revolutionary solution to the inherent problems with government as it is known today.


The mayor said that his posting about Lita Handy - Peters (F--- Lita) was taken out of context. There is NO appropriate context for that slur. I am disappointed that the reporter from the News-Journal did not even comment on the mayor's lies on his applications.

I think that the lies are extremely relevant in assessing the mayor`s character or lack thereof.
M. Sandler


As Promised...

Our Year Long Nightmayor:


Part I of V



Attn: Kenny Paterson...I'm sure Mr. Paterson reads POP...but just in case...can someone get this to him? Thanks.

November 7th, 2006 DeBary Citizens passed the Bond Referendum for Stormwater Improvements.

That language citizens voted on…the language on the actual ballot read thusly:

Without raising the stormwater assessment fee shall the City of Debary issue revenue bonds for the acquisition of land and construction of stormwater improvements in an aggregate principal amount not exceeding $10,000,000 with a maturity not exceeding 20 years from their date, as determined by the City Council, bearing interest not exceeding the maximum rate allowed by law and pledging stormwater utility special assessments and all legally available non ad valorem tax revenues as security?”

So, Kenny Paterson who spoke at the last meeting. See that first sentence: “Without raising the stormwater assessment fee…”? Well, as Mr. Paterson demonstrated, it’s gone up over 100%. So, take the ballot and this language to the next Council meeting and have a talk.

The resolution states that the vote in 2006 “authorized the City to pay for the costs of the project…” but the actual language was “without raising the assessment fee”. Therefore, any additional costs must go through regular budgeting – like maintenance. That’s my opinion based on bond referendum citizens voted on; however, if voting meant anything, they’d make it illegal.

Oh, I’m putting the link to the actual ballot online so you can read it yourself. There’s always the possibility some arse might think I’m embellishin’. So read the words for yourself.

Norm Erickson



Two takeaways from the City Council meeting on 12/2:

  • The Mayor stunned himself with his own lie about his Stetson degree when CM Dwyer handed the Mayor the Planning and Zoning application the Mayor had filled out in 2012. The Mayor had typed – typed, he had graduated from Stetson in 2006. This event happened after the Mayor explained his lie in 2014 about graduating on a different City application: he explained how he very quickly filled out the application and made a mistake about his own personal history. The Mayor looked at his own application from 2012 and stated he could not explain why he had typed his Stetson graduation date of 2006. I can: you lied, Mayor to make people think you graduated. It’s called “credentialism” and you’re quoted in the paper as saying you don’t need it – another lie. Calling someone who lies a liar is a generational thing, don't take it to heart, Mayor. Fun fact: on the application to Orange City, Clint Johnson did not state he graduated from Stetson. He wrote the truth. Lie to DeBary but tell the truth to Orange City. These are public documents in the Mayor’s own handwriting.
  • The Mayor has argued that roll call votes are not allowed for by the Charter unless requested. True. He also argued to devalue the use of roll call votes. But when it came time for the censure vote, the Mayor called for “all those in favor” a beat or two, and then, “those opposed” and voices were talking at the same time…and it was a disastrously mishandled situation that shows why roll call votes work better. I don’t know how CM Carson was voting. Everyone was looking around. The Mayor was calling for a unanimous vote and it was just lunacy. Each vote should be a roll call vote. The Charter allows for a member to ask for one for each vote. Ask for one for each vote.

Norm Erickson

Mayor to "tone back social media"

"I'm not going to take people to task on Facebook as I used to." My italics - Norm



Mayor Votes to Disapprove of his own behavior and that he has no confidence in himself

The Vote on Censure and No Confidence:



Hasn’t the Mayor Already Been Censured?

In newspapers and on TV the Mayor has, in effect, censured himself. I doubt many could read or watch the news about the Mayor admitting to calling citizens “trolls”, residents attending Council meetings the “peanut gallery”, and his fellow Councilmembers “jerks” and telling the Vice-Mayor to her face, “You suck!” and believe that any of these behaviors are appropriate.

Censure is an expression of disapproval. I can’t imagine anyone approving of the Mayor’s behavior and words towards citizens and fellow Councilmembers.

Will a majority of Councilmembers vote for censure? We’ll see.

If they don’t, wow, why did we spend at least a grand on the lawyers to draw up decorum policies and study how to throw someone out of a meeting for violating the decorum policy when if the Mayor violates it, it’s not even met with disapproval?

And if it’s not met with disapproval…well… " As*****” is simply a vulgar term that describes an “…irritating, ridiculous person”. Why not have that word bandied about at the podium and dais? If “troll” is an accurate description of other people, as the Mayor states and he uses it at meetings…see where this could go if not met with disapproval?

Reasonable people would agree that the Mayor’s behavior that’s he’s admitted to is not appropriate. Calling people names when there is no provocation should be met with disapproval.

CM Brady motioned for censure a couple of months ago – no second. Things have gotten worse – not better. If censure then, surely now, as time and a chance for improvement was given to the Mayor. But improvement has not happened.

CM Brady was ahead of the curve on this one, but let’s not avoid doing the right and correct thing now just because fellow Councilmembers’ prudence was misplaced in the Mayor a couple of months ago.

Only friendship and politics would prevent an individual or individuals from admitting the clear, observable behavior of the Mayor is abhorrent, repugnant and will not allow progression for 2016.

The Mayor speaks about wanting to “change this City” and do things for this City as if he’s added even 1 item to any City Council agenda in the last 12 months – he hasn’t.

He wasted our time for a cardroom project that the landowner did not submit an application – a project the Mayor himself did not second to move forward when given the chance – I think a little time spent on his admitted behavior is worthwhile when it involves name calling citizens and Councilmembers.

Norm Erickson

Coming Soon for POP's Last Month:

The Mayor’s Mingle Mangle


Part 1 of 5: Humbug All Throughout the Year


Meeting on Dec. 2nd - 7PM

-Final Site Plan for Fire Station

-Job Opportunity Grants

-Request to the Mayor


Council to address Mayor's comments to Citizens




To frame the issue of the Mayor’s behavior we must move away from the Mayor and specific citizens.

The rule is this:

Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it become a universal law.

So, the issue is not “Should Mayor Johnson call Norm and Patricia Stevenson trolls”? Because there could an infinite number of answers and that doesn’t help us address the actual issue.

The issue is this:

When citizens are just sitting quietly at a meeting, should any elected official call any of them a derogatory, belittling, and/or offensive name or term?

I believe most people would agree that when citizens are attending a public, open Council meeting or workshop, not talking and just sitting quietly, it is not acceptable for any elected official to call them some kind of negative term.

When any elected official does act in such a manner, it should be addressed.

Let’s take personalities out of it if we want to discuss how everyone should act, citizens and elected officials alike, in all circumstances.

Norm Erickson